NAM.2017-10-29-1

Filmed oral history interview with Cpl Robin Horsfall, Parachute Regiment and the Special Air Service. Interview undertaken by Dr Dominique Bouchard and Kate Swann at the National Army Museum on 18 Oct 2017. Subjects include SAS training and selection, motivation for joining SAS, attitudes to media reporting of SAS operations. Associated with Northern Ireland (1969-2007), South Atlantic (Falklands War) (1982), Operation NIMROD (Iranian Embassy Siege), Civil Unrest (1900-1999) 1980. 4000845 Robin Horsfall joined British Army in 1972 in the Infantry Junior Leaders Battalion, joined 2 Battalion Parachute Regiment in 1974 then the Special Air Service, which he left in 1984 when he was 27. Talks about being a child of an Army father. Joined the British Army himself at 15. Wanted to be a medic, but ended up in the Parachute Regiment when he reached 17. Served in Northern Ireland when 18 years old with the Parachute Regiment. First time he’d been shot at despite being a soldier for three years already. When in Ballymurphy on his second tour he was shot in the leg. Initially thought he’d just twisted his ankle and it turned out he had twisted his ankle but also had a 2.2 bullet lodged in the lower half of his leg. Also accidentally lay down on a bomb - lay down on a mound of earth and rifle scraped some metal, he excavated the area and found a claymore mine. Third tour in South Armagh in small guided missile unit. Was told he would go back to the Parachute Regiment but didn’t want to, so put himself forward for SAS selection in 1978. Failed SAS selection the first time in summer 1978 aged 21. Did it again in January 1979. Of the 57 in his selection cohort, eight passed and one person died. Did two more trips to Northern Ireland with the SAS. Calls himself a “lone wolf” - good soldier but not good mixer. Feels he was driven to SAS selection through feeling of insecurity, wanted to prove himself. Said he wasn’t fit enough physically or mentally the first time round. Trained for selection in the mountains - practised map reading, survival techniques, etc. First heard of SAS through lecture given at Aldershot when he was 20. Selection takes a year with first month spent in Brecon Beacons, working as an individual. In the last week of Brecon Beacons weight starts at 35 pounds and increases to 55 pounds by the end - equivalent of doing six marathons over five days with weight. Continuation training at Sennybridge then in the jungle operating in four to five man groups. Says everything in the jungle wants to eat you, particularly ticks, and you lose a lot of weight. Combat survival training teaches you to survive off the land; the test is escape and evasion over period of days while being hunted down and then interrogated. During interrogation, not allowed to say yes or no or sign any pieces of paper - interrogators try to embarrass you. At the end you become paranoid, even when the umpire comes in to tell you it’s over it’s hard to believe them. As he was already a paratrooper he didn’t need to do parachute training. Went on to qualify as a paramedic and was put into Mountain Troop. Enjoyed the challenges faced in the jungle - pure soldiering. Hardest part was the final distance on test week in the Brecon Beacons. Learnt languages in his first three years - Arabic. Biggest issue facing SAS is the pool to pull recruits from is decreasing. Talks about his first go at selection - devastated when he realised; had massive sores on his back and was at the back of the group in the third week of the Brecon Beacons. Once seed of doubt was planted, he went back to the previous check point and ended his selection. Offered opportunity to stay on to try again in January - not RTU’d. Describes how he fixed his Bergen to stop it rubbing. Weapons training - needed to learn how to use Russian weapons, particularly AK47s. Counter terrorism - Horsfall got called out to Iranian Embassy; each squadron rotated, spending six months at a time training and on-call for terrorism operations. Team refused to talk about Iranian Embassy siege until approached for a documentary 22 years later. Heard about Iranian Embassy siege on 28 April 1980 - were preparing for training exercise in Edinburgh; first heard through media, later told to standby and trip to Edinburgh cancelled. Had to leave girlfriend note with no details. Moved to Beaconsfield and then to Regents Park Barracks then to building next to Iranian Embassy. Talks about long wait before being mobilised. When body of hostage left the Embassy on 5 May, Thatcher gave order to police to give order to SAS to mobilise. Police negotiator kept terrorists talking but window was broken by one of the SAS abseilers so had to start operation earlier than planned. Didn’t want negotiators to be successful, wanted to do what they’d been brought there to do. Training included being stood down and engaged again, so no mistakes made through complacency. Details what equipped with for operation. Aware of media presence, only about 100 metres away; considered a threat to SAS - when they arrived they had to try and avoid being filmed by the media. SAS - “Stores and Supplies” or “Sex and Soldiering”? Talks about the terrorists. Talks about change over time in terrorist tactics. Talks about the SAS and working under British law when on British soil - the post-siege procedure. D and G squadrons sent to the Falkland Islands. Horsfall in B squadron which was prepared to be sent into Argentina to take out Argentinean jets who were sinking British ships. Deemed acceptable loss to lose SAS squadron of 60 men in order to save a ship. Outlines plan for mission - there was no exit plan. Talks about what happened - had trouble getting there, lost kit, Argentineans surrendered before they got there. Met wife when on SAS selection and moved into a flat together whilst he was still on selection. Married 1981. Never lived in married quarters on camps. Horsfall never told her about the operations he was on. When in Falklands, she was eight months pregnant and he wasn’t sure he would survive the operation, but had to keep secret where he was going and what he thought would happen. SAS have a Families Officer - told about helicopter crash and then about Horsfall’s mission, not told details but told it would be a ‘bloodbath’. Managed to get a message to Horsfall in the Falklands when he was on Lancelot to tell him his son had been born. Able to call his wife from a phone box in Georgetown on Ascension Island, his wife had to go to the end of the road and wait at the phone box at a particular time. Eventually got phone installed in their house. Received letters from home. Son, Alex, born in 1982 and was three years old when Horsfall left the SAS, daughter Charlotte and son Oliver born when Horsfall was already out of the Army. Talks about work he did after the Army. Horsfall has told his children stories of his time in the SAS, but wife and children all learned more through his book. Suffered PTSD after working in Mozambique in 1991. Talks about secrecy - need for secrecy came out of experiences in Northern Ireland, as soldiers didn’t want to identify themselves to IRA; says it’s not a secret to be an SAS soldier but the knowledge can put lives in danger because the death of a member of the Special Forces is more of a prize; Horsfall happy to reveal he’s ex SAS now he’s no longer serving; talks about role of journalists. Portrayal of SAS in films - when advertised as fiction that’s fine, when sold as the truth he doesn’t approve; doesn’t like portrayal as “mindless thugs”. Talks about ‘6 Days’ film about the Iranian Embassy siege - not a fan. Future of Special Forces - demands have changed, need to be flexible. Risk of getting too big - quantity over quality. Women in Special Forces - should be given the opportunity to try; culture with soldiers to protect women; shouldn’t be on the front line as not aggressive or strong enough; but think they make good officers. 4000846 Special Forces soldiers tend not to be big - slim, wiry, endurance. Average height in Parachute Regiment was 5.8/5.9. Talks about weapons SAS use - MP5, 9mm Browning pistol, Welrod. Relationship with and differences between SAS and SBS - Horsfall has trained with SBS, but not on operation; big shoulders; not as diverse, not as flexible - don’t train in desert warfare, etc; train SAS Boat Troop. Weapons for counter terrorism operations - night vision goggles. Planning of the Iranian Embassy - Michael Rose based in Downing Street, too many chiefs can be a problem. Decision making on patrol - ‘hot extraction’ of wounded man. Tells story of wounded man waiting four days before using emergency beacon to get a helicopter to come and rescue him so the rest of his troop could get out of the area. Boots most important equipment - need the right boots for the environment. When packing Bergen most important stuff at top - sleeping equipment in bottom, ammunition, food and water readily available. Webbing should contain everything you need to survive if you become separated from your Bergen. Benefit of passing on experience. Navigation skills - Mobility and Boat Troop focus on astrological and sextants; navigate in jungle using time and distance done. Talks about being taught the history of the Special Forces. When Horsfall joined, troopers not allowed to receive medals. Mentions stories of individuals - Labalaba, David Stirling. Diversity in SAS.

Northern Ireland (1969-), South Atlantic (Falklands War) (1982)

NIMROD, Operation (Iranian Embassy Siege), 1980 (Civil Unrest 1900-1999)